Games length argument is coming up again, so let's discuss this. A thread. Yes I'm aware I go on long rants often, here's a hashtag I will use when I rant, so people that don't care can mute it if they would like. #Treystoptalking

The idea of a game having to have a preset length is a strange one. Value wise, that would make longer better, and more worthy of your money. But if length was the only factor, then 100 hours of hitting a tree only would be a great value.

Obviously the gameplay must also be enjoyable. So the value comes from the two mixing. How much versus how little varies by the person, but on average a good game will be fun while not overstaying it's welcome, with replayability.

I do believe there is a sweet spot, where the game was just long enough to leave you wanting more, but are ultimately satisfied and can then replay it at a later date.

I also believe games can be far too short and thus unsatisfying, or drag on for too long, and get stale.

So then we ask, how do we find the sweet spot, what's too long, and what's too short? We could say one hour is too short, but games like Florence tell a beautiful story in far less time than that.

We could say 100 hours is too long, and yet games like Terraria and Stardew thrive on the idea that you can just keep playing them, if the gameplay keeps drawing you in. MMOs are the same, and go go for much longer.

(I may or may not have over 37 days logged in FFXIV)

Thankfully, we can average them out by what types of games we are playing and try to fit lengths in there.

So let's tackle RPGs! Since that's my favorite genre. I'll name off some of the greats, and see what we can draw from them.

Warned you this was going to be a long one!

Chrono Trigger's How Long to Beat is 23 hours, 46 is you get all endings. This is one of the most well regarded RPGs of all time, but clocks in at less than 50 hours. Based on the hourly value alone, that's abysmal.

But Chrono Trigger has incredible music, a great story told in that time frame, and a really solid combat system, so those 50 hours are going to be enjoyable, for the most part.

Skyrim is also well beloved, and takes anywhere from 33 to Infinity hours to beat.

Is Chrono Trigger too short? Is Skyrim too long? Objectively, I don't feel we can say. Would more Chrono Trigger have been better? Well yeah probably, but only if it didn't make the game longer just for the sake of it being longer.

So let's compare it to the hot button issues of FFVII R, Pokemon Sword/Shield, and Xenoblade 2's DLC, the Golden Land of Torna, because all three of those have had length concerns bandied around.

(If you thought we were nearing the end, I'm really just getting started)

FFVII original took 38 hours to beat, according to HLTB, but we can round up to 40. That's a decent amount of time, but does not take a week to beat if you have nothing but time.

FFVII R part 1 is roughly at 25. 13-15 hours less than the full game it pulls from.

You may look at 25 and say, that's far too short! But that's longer than one playthrough of Chrono Trigger.

But the real question I have, is why is that too short? If it's too short because the original is longer, then sure. The original has more stuff to do.

If they had waited and made all of original VII in the remake, it may have taken a few more years, but it would be far longer than original VII, I would assume. In that case, you could always wait for the full thing to come out and buy the pack that has them all.

That said, it's possible that 25 is full of great content, that like Chrono Trigger, will leave you satisfied while wanting more. I do think that sweet spot differs per person.

What about Torna then? Torna is roughly 18 hours, and it feels like it.

Torna stops you at times to make you do side content before you can progress the story again. Although it is for a story reason, it makes the game feel longer, because you're being forced to do things you might not have done otherwise.

With Torna, the 18 hours felt "too long" to me because of the forced mechanic. If the game had just let me progress as I wished but was 15 hours, I would have enjoyed it more, despite having played less of it.

Still love Torna though, this is just an example. Other games do this

Finally, on Sword/Shield. They clock in at 26 hours roughly to complete, with very little post game content. Is this shorter than other pokemon games? Some, sure. But Red and Blue on average take 26 as well. I stated when I finished Sword that I felt it was short. Why?

SwSh, like R/B, have only one post game event in them. But R/B were games with few cutscenes, that focused on gameplay. Most of the game was spent catching, training and battling pokemon. SwSh have a story that I really enjoyed, but they split that time. Story/Gameplay.

Would another 10 hours of story have made SwSh better? Tough to say. We could have met more characters, and seen more sights, but I feel more routes, and less story, would have made SwSh feel more complete for me.

So, let's try and close this circle.

Longer games are not better, shorter games are not better. It is the games that marry their length along with their gameplay, and find the balance that truly shine. There can be too little of a good thing, and too much of a good thing. Each individual will have their own limits,

But games like Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy VI, Golden Sun or Super Mario RPG being so well loved and respected despite their short length, means that we can love short games, while Skyrim, Dragon Quest VII, Tales of Vesperia and Persona 4 show we love long games too.

I believe there is no such thing as looking at an hour count and saying that a game is too short or too long, but that only by experiencing the game and seeing how it handles the mix of gameplay and story can you name a game too long or too short.

Not that this will stop people.

Well, this thread is objectively too long, eh? I think this is the longest rant thread on an issue yet, and I'm sure I'll talk about it more on the podcast. But if you want more of this or much less of it, #Treystoptalking to mute or follow.

This could have been a video...