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When Spanoulis broke Navarro’s all-time scoring total this season in @EuroLeague, I was curious if anyone from FIBA era would be able to crack top 10 or top 15. I was convinced Navarro and Spanoulis had the record for since 1958 because of formats and match totals of FIBA era.
So I went to http://pearlbasket.altervista.org which has compiled scoring data from newspapers for from 1958 to 1991. So not any of this is official data. After 1991, FIBA has its own stats archive on its own website; those are official.
Due to many changes in euroleague format, this doesn’t meant to be a meaningful comparison. During most of FIBA era it was *theoretically* possible for Korac Cup champion to be the best in Europe whilst Korac Cup was the 3rd tier cup below Saporta Cup too.
This is not the case for modern era except for the divided 2000-01 season. But to be honest, the modern era scorers list also cannot be meaningful for comparisons because format changes still happen and number of matches continue to increase benefiting newer players.
So I want to be clear in my purpose not being to compare anything by adding up these points totals. I don’t even think points or points averages are useful tools to help with player performance assessment, not even a little bit. But it is interesting to see these players’ totals.
I compiled players’ totals that I was interested in. Only their euroleague seasons (or Champions Cup then), not any from Saporta Cup or Korac Cup. If you ask me to include a player, I’ll add to the thread. I gave the source in 2nd tweet. You can add them up yourself if you like.
Before starting, I’d like to link the @EuroLeague list of all-time scorers, updated regularly on their website. Obviously excluding any point scored in FIBA era: https://www.euroleague.net/main/statistics?mode=Leaders&entity=Players&seasonmode=All&cat=Score&agg=Accumulated
Radivoj Korać: 738 points in 17 matches (43,4 avg).
Averaged 37,2 points in 6 matches in 1958-59.
Averaged 32,2 points in 5 matches in 1963-64.
Averaged 54 points in 6 matches in 1964-65.
56 vs @RMBaloncesto in his last euroleague match stands out.
Averaged 37,2 points in 6 matches in 1958-59.
Averaged 32,2 points in 5 matches in 1963-64.
Averaged 54 points in 6 matches in 1964-65.
56 vs @RMBaloncesto in his last euroleague match stands out.
Dražen Petrović: 791 points in 23 matches (34,4 avg).
No data from 3 @kk_cibona matches in 1984-85.
No data from 3 @kk_cibona matches in 1985-86 & I suspect he DNPed a 1st round match as he’s shown with no points.
30,8 avg in 12 matches in ‘85. 38,4 avg in 11 matches in ‘86.
No data from 3 @kk_cibona matches in 1984-85.
No data from 3 @kk_cibona matches in 1985-86 & I suspect he DNPed a 1st round match as he’s shown with no points.
30,8 avg in 12 matches in ‘85. 38,4 avg in 11 matches in ‘86.
Dražen Dalipagić: 875 points in 35 matches (25 avg).
No data from 3 @PartizanBC matches in 1976-77. No data from 5 @PartizanBC matches in 1979-80, in 2 others I suspect he did not play. No data from 2 @PartizanBC matches in 1981-82.
55 points vs @PallCantu in 1982 stands out.
No data from 3 @PartizanBC matches in 1976-77. No data from 5 @PartizanBC matches in 1979-80, in 2 others I suspect he did not play. No data from 2 @PartizanBC matches in 1981-82.
55 points vs @PallCantu in 1982 stands out.
Vlade Divac: 291 points in 17 matches (17,1 avg).
Played only in 1987-88 season.
31 points against @ARISBCgr in his last euroleague match as a 20 year old stands out.
Played only in 1987-88 season.
31 points against @ARISBCgr in his last euroleague match as a 20 year old stands out.
Aleksandar Đorđević: 1527 points in 114 matches (13,4 avg).
I include points scored in modern era, as I did with every player who played both in FIBA era and modern era.
His 1st season is 1987-88. Last is 2004-05. Averaged 13,9 in 17 matches during @PartizanBC’s 1991-92 title.
I include points scored in modern era, as I did with every player who played both in FIBA era and modern era.
His 1st season is 1987-88. Last is 2004-05. Averaged 13,9 in 17 matches during @PartizanBC’s 1991-92 title.
Predgag Danilović: 1909 points in 100 matches (19,1 avg).
Highest avg is 22,1 in 17 matches in 1994-95. Averaged 19,4 in 19 matches during @PartizanBC’s 1991-92 title. Averaged 17,5 in 21 matches during @Virtusbo’s 1997-98 title.
Highest avg is 22,1 in 17 matches in 1994-95. Averaged 19,4 in 19 matches during @PartizanBC’s 1991-92 title. Averaged 17,5 in 21 matches during @Virtusbo’s 1997-98 title.
Dejan Bodiroga: 3010 points in 179 matches (16,8 avg).
1997-98 was first euroleague season, played in euroleague every subsequent season until retirement after that except in 2005-06.
Averaged 17,2-20-16,1 points in 22 matches each in his 3 championship seasons in order.
1997-98 was first euroleague season, played in euroleague every subsequent season until retirement after that except in 2005-06.
Averaged 17,2-20-16,1 points in 22 matches each in his 3 championship seasons in order.
Walter Szczerbiak: 2607 points in 102 matches (25,6 avg).
Played in 7 seasons, all in a row from 1973 to 1980. 45 points vs @kkzadar in 1975 stands out.
Averaged 25,9-27,9-22,5 in 13-16-17 matches respectively during his 3 titles at @RMBaloncesto in order.
Played in 7 seasons, all in a row from 1973 to 1980. 45 points vs @kkzadar in 1975 stands out.
Averaged 25,9-27,9-22,5 in 13-16-17 matches respectively during his 3 titles at @RMBaloncesto in order.
Bob Morse: 2212 points in 82 matches (27 avg).
1 match @PallVarese played each in 1974-75 (28,6 avg otherwise) 1976-77 (27 avg otherwise) 1977-78 (26,9 avg otherwise) 1978-79 (28,3 avg otherwise) has no data.
Averaged 24,7-28,6-29 in 9-12-12 matches respectively in 3 titles.
1 match @PallVarese played each in 1974-75 (28,6 avg otherwise) 1976-77 (27 avg otherwise) 1977-78 (26,9 avg otherwise) 1978-79 (28,3 avg otherwise) has no data.
Averaged 24,7-28,6-29 in 9-12-12 matches respectively in 3 titles.
Bob McAdoo: 1292 points in 50 matches (25,8 avg).
Averaged 22,2 in 15 matches in 1986-87.
Averaged 29,1 in 18 matches in 1987-88.
Averaged 25,5 in 17 matches in 1989-90.
That’s all of his euroleague seasons, with first two ending with @OlimpiaMI1936 titles.
Averaged 22,2 in 15 matches in 1986-87.
Averaged 29,1 in 18 matches in 1987-88.
Averaged 25,5 in 17 matches in 1989-90.
That’s all of his euroleague seasons, with first two ending with @OlimpiaMI1936 titles.
Mike D’Antoni: 803 points in 79 matches (10,2 avg).
Highest average was 14,6 in 14 matches in 1985-86 throughout his 5 euroleague seasons.
Averaged 11,4-8,6 in 15-18 matches respectively in order of @OlimpiaMI1936’s back-to-back euroleague title seasons.
Highest average was 14,6 in 14 matches in 1985-86 throughout his 5 euroleague seasons.
Averaged 11,4-8,6 in 15-18 matches respectively in order of @OlimpiaMI1936’s back-to-back euroleague title seasons.
Anthony Parker: 1804 points in (15,8 avg).
He’s in this thread only because of his 2000-01 Suproleague season which is his only season in FIBA era. Averaged 14 points in 24 matches that season and 16,3 points in 90 matches for the rest of his @EuroLeague career in modern era.
He’s in this thread only because of his 2000-01 Suproleague season which is his only season in FIBA era. Averaged 14 points in 24 matches that season and 16,3 points in 90 matches for the rest of his @EuroLeague career in modern era.
Emiliano Rodríguez: 2031 points in 117 matches (17,4 avg).
Played in every since from 1960-61 to 1972-73.
Averaged 26,8-20,5-17,4-12,8 in 9-8-10-10 matches respectively in order of his 4 championships with @RMBaloncesto.
Played in every since from 1960-61 to 1972-73.
Averaged 26,8-20,5-17,4-12,8 in 9-8-10-10 matches respectively in order of his 4 championships with @RMBaloncesto.
Clifford Luyk: 2639 points in 163 matches (16,2 avg).
Played in every season from 1962-63 to 1977-78.
Averaged 17,8-20-12,9-19,9-14,7-3,8 points in 10-8-10-13-13-6 matches respectively in order of his 6 championships with @RMBaloncesto.
Played in every season from 1962-63 to 1977-78.
Averaged 17,8-20-12,9-19,9-14,7-3,8 points in 10-8-10-13-13-6 matches respectively in order of his 6 championships with @RMBaloncesto.
Wayne Brabender: 3392 points in 170 matches (20 avg).
First season is 1967-68. Last season is 1982-83. Only missed euroleague in 1981-82 in between that period.
Averaged 17-22,1-19,9-21,1 in 13-12-16-17 matches respectively in order of his 4 titles with @RMBaloncesto.
First season is 1967-68. Last season is 1982-83. Only missed euroleague in 1981-82 in between that period.
Averaged 17-22,1-19,9-21,1 in 13-12-16-17 matches respectively in order of his 4 titles with @RMBaloncesto.
Juan Antonio Corbalán: 1239 points in 158 matches (7,8 avg).
First season is 1971-72. Last season is 1986-87.
Averaged 7,7-6,1-9 points in 7-15-17 matches respectively in order of his 3 titles with @RMBaloncesto.
Highest average was at 12,1 in 14 matches in his last season.
First season is 1971-72. Last season is 1986-87.
Averaged 7,7-6,1-9 points in 7-15-17 matches respectively in order of his 3 titles with @RMBaloncesto.
Highest average was at 12,1 in 14 matches in his last season.
Juan Antonio San Epifanio: 2308 points in 133 matches (17,4 avg).
Played in 9 seasons starting from 1981 to 1995.
Highest average in a season at 25,3 in 15 matches in 1983-84.
Played in 9 seasons starting from 1981 to 1995.
Highest average in a season at 25,3 in 15 matches in 1983-84.
Dino Meneghin: 2138 points in 183 matches (11,7 avg).
First season is 1969-70. Last season is 1989-90.
There is no data of 1 match @PallVarese played in 1972-73, 1975-76, 1976-77. There is no data of 2 matches @PallVarese played in 1974-75, 1977-78, 1978-79.
First season is 1969-70. Last season is 1989-90.
There is no data of 1 match @PallVarese played in 1972-73, 1975-76, 1976-77. There is no data of 2 matches @PallVarese played in 1974-75, 1977-78, 1978-79.
Pierluigi Marzorati: 687 points in 56 matches (12,2 avg).
Averaged 10,7 and 9,9 points in 14 matches each in his two title winning seasons with @PallCantu.
Played only in two other seasons. Averaged 17,9 in 14 matches in 1975-76. Averaged 10,5 in 1983-84.
Averaged 10,7 and 9,9 points in 14 matches each in his two title winning seasons with @PallCantu.
Played only in two other seasons. Averaged 17,9 in 14 matches in 1975-76. Averaged 10,5 in 1983-84.
Antonello Riva: 2066 points in 97 matches (21,3 avg).
Averaged 15,1 and 22,5 points in 14 and 15 matches respectively in order of his titles with @PallCantu.
Highest average is 27,9 in 14 matches in 1983-84.
Averaged 15,1 and 22,5 points in 14 and 15 matches respectively in order of his titles with @PallCantu.
Highest average is 27,9 in 14 matches in 1983-84.
Krešimir Ćosić: 1066 points in 59 matches (18,1 avg).
No data from 1 @kkzadar match in 1965-66. No data from 1 @Virtusbo match in 1979-80.
No data from 4 @kk_cibona matches in 1982-83; I suspect he DNPed in at least 1 one of those with injury though, maybe others too.
No data from 1 @kkzadar match in 1965-66. No data from 1 @Virtusbo match in 1979-80.
No data from 4 @kk_cibona matches in 1982-83; I suspect he DNPed in at least 1 one of those with injury though, maybe others too.
Dino Rađa: 1182 points in 70 matches (16,9 avg).
Averaged 18,6 and 17,3 in 18 matches each respectively in order of his titles with @kksplit_.
Played in 5 euroleague seasons with his first being 1988-89 and last being 2001-02.
Averaged 18,6 and 17,3 in 18 matches each respectively in order of his titles with @kksplit_.
Played in 5 euroleague seasons with his first being 1988-89 and last being 2001-02.
Toni Kukoč: 1238 points in 70 matches (17,7 avg).
Averaged 14,3-17,9-17,6 in 18-18-17 matches in his 3 three-peat of titles with @kksplit_.
1992-93 is his only other euroleague season and in which he averaged 21,1 points in 17 matches.
Averaged 14,3-17,9-17,6 in 18-18-17 matches in his 3 three-peat of titles with @kksplit_.
1992-93 is his only other euroleague season and in which he averaged 21,1 points in 17 matches.
Panagiotis Giannakis: 1514 points in 119 matches (12,7 avg).
Averaged 5,7 points in 21 matches in his retirement and euroleague winning season of 1995-96 with @paobcgr.
Highest average of 17,9 in 16 matches in 1987-88. And 17,8 average in 16 matches next season.
Averaged 5,7 points in 21 matches in his retirement and euroleague winning season of 1995-96 with @paobcgr.
Highest average of 17,9 in 16 matches in 1987-88. And 17,8 average in 16 matches next season.
Nikos Galis: 4035 points in 125 matches (32,3 avg).
Peak avg is 37,8 in 17 matches in 1989-90. Also 37,7 avg in 1987-88 in 17 matches.
Averaged under 30 only in his last 2 euroleague seasons in 1993-94 (23,8 in 21 matches) and in 1994-95 (19,5 in 2 matches) out of 10 seasons.
Peak avg is 37,8 in 17 matches in 1989-90. Also 37,7 avg in 1987-88 in 17 matches.
Averaged under 30 only in his last 2 euroleague seasons in 1993-94 (23,8 in 21 matches) and in 1994-95 (19,5 in 2 matches) out of 10 seasons.
Fragiskos Alvertis: 2440 points in 249 matches (9,8 avg).
First season is 1993-94. Last season is 2008-09. Missed euroleague only in 1997-98 between those seasons.
Averaged 10,8-7,9-10,2-3,3-0 points in 21-10-22-11-1 matches respectively in order of his 5 titles with @paobcgr
First season is 1993-94. Last season is 2008-09. Missed euroleague only in 1997-98 between those seasons.
Averaged 10,8-7,9-10,2-3,3-0 points in 21-10-22-11-1 matches respectively in order of his 5 titles with @paobcgr
Arvydas Sabonis: 1708 points in 89 matches (19,2 avg).
No data from 2 @bczalgiris matches in 1985-86 (average of 24,5 points in the other 13 matches).
No data from 4 @bczalgiris matches in 1986-87 (average of 21,3 points in the other 6 matches).
No data from 2 @bczalgiris matches in 1985-86 (average of 24,5 points in the other 13 matches).
No data from 4 @bczalgiris matches in 1986-87 (average of 21,3 points in the other 6 matches).
Šarūnas Jasikevičius: 2643 points in 248 matches (10,7 avg).
Only reason he’s in the thread is because of his lone season in FIBA era in 1999-00 when he averaged 13,6 points in 22 matches.
Averaged 13,4-16-15,7-9,6 in 21-21-24-22 matches respectively in order of his 4 titles.
Only reason he’s in the thread is because of his lone season in FIBA era in 1999-00 when he averaged 13,6 points in 22 matches.
Averaged 13,4-16-15,7-9,6 in 21-21-24-22 matches respectively in order of his 4 titles.
Sergei Belov: 614 points in 34 matches (18,1 avg).
No data from 4 @cskabasket matches in 1968-69, no data from 3 each in 1969-70 and 1970-71, no data from 2 in 1972-73, no data from 6 in 1976-77.
Avgs of 15,8-11,5-11,5-24,1-22,8 in other 5-6-6-7-10 matches in order of seasons.
No data from 4 @cskabasket matches in 1968-69, no data from 3 each in 1969-70 and 1970-71, no data from 2 in 1972-73, no data from 6 in 1976-77.
Avgs of 15,8-11,5-11,5-24,1-22,8 in other 5-6-6-7-10 matches in order of seasons.
Mirza Delibašić: 739 points in 37 matches (20 avg).
Avg of 23,9 in 13 matches in lone title season with Bosna Royal, however no data of 4 matches in this season.
No data of 4 matches in 1979-80, he averaged 27,4 in 10 matches otherwise.
Avg of 23,9 in 13 matches in lone title season with Bosna Royal, however no data of 4 matches in this season.
No data of 4 matches in 1979-80, he averaged 27,4 in 10 matches otherwise.
Miki Berkovich: 3588 points in 201 matches (17,9 avg).
No data of 2 @MaccabitlvBC matches in title season of 1976-77 (16,1 avg in 15 other matches). No data of 1 match each in 1981-82, 1982-83 and 1987-88.
Avg of 20,4 in 16 matches in 2nd title season.
No data of 2 @MaccabitlvBC matches in title season of 1976-77 (16,1 avg in 15 other matches). No data of 1 match each in 1981-82, 1982-83 and 1987-88.
Avg of 20,4 in 16 matches in 2nd title season.
Manuel Raga: 1741 points in 71 matches (24,5 avg).
No data from 1 @PallVarese match in title season of 1972-73 (23,8 avg in other 8 matches).
Avg of 22,5 in 10 matches in 1969-70 and avg of 23,2 in 9 matches in 1971-72 in the other two title seasons of his with @PallVarese.
No data from 1 @PallVarese match in title season of 1972-73 (23,8 avg in other 8 matches).
Avg of 22,5 in 10 matches in 1969-70 and avg of 23,2 in 9 matches in 1971-72 in the other two title seasons of his with @PallVarese.
Fernando Romay: 471 points in 90 matches (5,2 avg).
7 points in 1 match in title season of 1977-78 and avg of 6,4 in 5 matches in title season of 1979-80 with @RMBaloncesto.
Peak avg of 9,7 in 13 matches in 1986-87.
7 points in 1 match in title season of 1977-78 and avg of 6,4 in 5 matches in title season of 1979-80 with @RMBaloncesto.
Peak avg of 9,7 in 13 matches in 1986-87.
Harun Erdenay: 2100 points in 140 matches (15 avg).
Peak avg of 20,1 in 16 matches in 1997-98 and 20,1 again in 1998-99 in 18 matches.
Peak avg of 20,1 in 16 matches in 1997-98 and 20,1 again in 1998-99 in 18 matches.
Lolo Sainz: 488 points in 74 matches (6,6 avg).
Averages of 13,3-9,1-3-5 in 10-8-10-12 matches respectively in order of his 4 titles with @RMBaloncesto.
Averages of 13,3-9,1-3-5 in 10-8-10-12 matches respectively in order of his 4 titles with @RMBaloncesto.
Miles Aiken: 693 points in 36 matches (19,3 avg).
Avg of 22 in 11 matches in title season of 1966-67 and avg of 18,6 in 13 matches in title seasom of 1967-68 with @RMBaloncesto.
Avg of 22 in 11 matches in title season of 1966-67 and avg of 18,6 in 13 matches in title seasom of 1967-68 with @RMBaloncesto.
Audie Norris: 926 points in 58 matches (16 avg).
Played in euroleague for four straight seasons from 1987 to 1991. That’s all of his euroleague career.
Peak avg of 18,2 in 14 matches in 1987-88.
Played in euroleague for four straight seasons from 1987 to 1991. That’s all of his euroleague career.
Peak avg of 18,2 in 14 matches in 1987-88.
Andrés Jiménez: 1185 points in 105 matches (11,3 avg).
Peak avg of 15,3 in 1987-88 in 16 matches aside from the 3 matches he played in 1990-91 averaging 18,3.
Missed euroleague only in 1992-93 from 1987 to 1996.
Peak avg of 15,3 in 1987-88 in 16 matches aside from the 3 matches he played in 1990-91 averaging 18,3.
Missed euroleague only in 1992-93 from 1987 to 1996.
Juan Carlos Navarro: 4321 points in 366 matches (11,8 avg).
He’s in this list because of two seasons from FIBA era.
1997-98 in which he played a total of 9 minutes in 3 matches but didn’t score any points.
And 1999-00 in which he averaged 7,7 points in 22 matches.
He’s in this list because of two seasons from FIBA era.
1997-98 in which he played a total of 9 minutes in 3 matches but didn’t score any points.
And 1999-00 in which he averaged 7,7 points in 22 matches.
İbrahim Kutluay: 2134 points in 162 matches (13,2 avg).
Played in 1991-92 as a teenager for 6 minutes in 1 match scoring 2 points.
Then didn’t play until 1998-99 in which he averaged 21,4 in 17 matches.
Played in 1991-92 as a teenager for 6 minutes in 1 match scoring 2 points.
Then didn’t play until 1998-99 in which he averaged 21,4 in 17 matches.
Vladimir Tkachenko: 190 points in 20 matches (9,5 avg).
No data from 3 @cskabasket matches in 1984-85 (avg of 15,7 points in 10 matches otherwise).
No data from 2 @cskabasket matches in 1988-89 (avg of 3,3 points in 10 matches otherwise).
No data from 3 @cskabasket matches in 1984-85 (avg of 15,7 points in 10 matches otherwise).
No data from 2 @cskabasket matches in 1988-89 (avg of 3,3 points in 10 matches otherwise).
Ferran Martínez: 1202 points in 112 matches (10,7 avg).
Average of 14,1 points in 20 matches in the title season of 1993-94 with @Penya1930.
Average of 14,1 points in 20 matches in the title season of 1993-94 with @Penya1930.
Chicho Sibilio: 1263 points in 57 matches (22,2 avg).
Peak avg of 27,1 in 1981-82 in 13 matches. 39 points against @PartizanBC that season is his euroleague career high.
Played in 4 seasons averaging 20+ points in each.
Peak avg of 27,1 in 1981-82 in 13 matches. 39 points against @PartizanBC that season is his euroleague career high.
Played in 4 seasons averaging 20+ points in each.
Nacho Solozábal: 1032 points in 115 matches (9 avg).
Peak average of 10,9 in his last euroleague season of 1991-92 in 17 matches.
Peak average of 10,9 in his last euroleague season of 1991-92 in 17 matches.
Marcelo Nicola: 1315 points in 133 matches (9,9 avg).
Peak average of 13,1 points in 1999-00 in 18 matches.
Peak average of 13,1 points in 1999-00 in 18 matches.
Alain Digbeu: 933 points in 112 matches (8,3 avg).
Peak avg of 11,4 in 21 matches in 1998-99.
Peak avg of 11,4 in 21 matches in 1998-99.
Nikos Oikonomou: 1124 points in 103 matches (10,9 avg).
Avg of 16,1 points in 21 matches in the title season of 1995-96 with @paobcgr.
Avg of 16,1 points in 21 matches in the title season of 1995-96 with @paobcgr.
Stojko Vranković: 1201 points in 116 matches (10,4 avg).
No data from 5 @kkzadar matches in 1986-87 (avg of 10,3 points in other 9 matches).
Averaged 11 points in 21 matches in the title season of 1995-96 with @paobcgr.
Peak average of 12,4 points in 21 matches in 1994-95.
No data from 5 @kkzadar matches in 1986-87 (avg of 10,3 points in other 9 matches).
Averaged 11 points in 21 matches in the title season of 1995-96 with @paobcgr.
Peak average of 12,4 points in 21 matches in 1994-95.
Gianluca Basile: 2384 points in 244 matches (9,8 avg).
He is here because of his lone season at FIBA era which was the 1999-00 season in which he averaged 10,5 points in 21 matches.
He is here because of his lone season at FIBA era which was the 1999-00 season in which he averaged 10,5 points in 21 matches.
Gregor Fučka: 2681 points in 218 matches (12,3 avg).
Peak avg of 19,7 in 17 matches in 2000-01. In FIBA era, his peak avg is 15,6 in 22 matches in 1996-97.
Average of 11,1 points in 22 matches in the title season of 2002-03 with @FCBbasket.
Peak avg of 19,7 in 17 matches in 2000-01. In FIBA era, his peak avg is 15,6 in 22 matches in 1996-97.
Average of 11,1 points in 22 matches in the title season of 2002-03 with @FCBbasket.
Denis Marconato: 1621 points in 237 matches (6,8 avg).
He’s in this thread because of 2 seasons from FIBA era.
1997-98: Average of 6,9 points in 23 matches.
1999-00: Average of 9,2 points in 18 matches.
Peak of 10,4 avg in 19 matches in 2003-04 in the modern era.
He’s in this thread because of 2 seasons from FIBA era.
1997-98: Average of 6,9 points in 23 matches.
1999-00: Average of 9,2 points in 18 matches.
Peak of 10,4 avg in 19 matches in 2003-04 in the modern era.
