From the opening montage: I already hate it, have seen numerous animal welfare violations.

But

@ecologistMC just said “This is what the guy wanted all along- to be on the big screen with tigers.”

OH HOLY HELL

There’s a snow leopard in a kennel

Snake dealer is wrong: they can’t “acclimate” to Florida because they were bred there. That’s not how evolution works

I’m reminded of this wild snow leopard I saw in China. She was panting at 55F (the cat is in a van at 110F ).

This is why private, for-profit breeding facilities don’t do anything for conservation: under no circumstances should it be this easy to buy a snow leopard.

If they aren’t accredited, they’re selling snow leopards to snake dealers in Florida.

(Sidenote it is WILD how little snake venom it takes to kill a person. I also appreciate it was featured in what appeared to be a martini glass. Classy)

The tigers are chuffing with Joe- it’s a friendly greeting, which means they “like” him as much as a wild animal is capable. This affection is conditional based on humans providing resources, and in my opinion does not demonstrate an emotional connection.

Why is there a music video

Wait, every night???

About himself?

Not the tigers

I wasn’t prepared to make this a drinking game re: how many times he says Carole Baskin

Now enter Big Cat Rescue, which has done exceptional work advocating for ending private ownership of wild cats

I worked at a similarly accredited facility for a year, and I have great respect for their work with state, federal, and private agencies

Umm, and I’m not sure this is necessary

But sex gel for humans is not part of any conservation program that I’m aware of

I was not prepared to type this

There is a difference between animal welfare (AW) and animal rights (AR)

AW advocates want basic needs met for animals in captivity, and AR activists generally believe animals have the same rights as humans. There can be overlap but they are not the same

In my experience, for-profit breeders of big cats love to conflate the two to avoid addressing animal welfare violations- if it’s just a “crazy” animal rights activist, the argument is invalid and you don’t need to change anything.

Doc Antle blocked me online last year because I called him out on his YouTube videos claiming that lions and tigers naturally hybridized millions of years ago.

The best available genetic data and geographic distribution of these extant species does not suggest this.

I have never seen tigers run through chutes like cattle

Oh my god

That many apex predators competing for food is SO dangerous to those cats

This is exploitation and I hope those watching understand why conservationists decry this kind of private ownership. It’s DISGUSTING.

HE’S TALKING ABOUT “BLACK PANTHERS” FFS

@drmichellelarue you were right, this is a mess

Put this on my tombstone:

“Anyone who poses with a baby tiger is part of the problem.”

The baby tigers are squawking because they are starved for their mother’s touch and care, they’re overstimulated by humans, and they likely have diarrhea.

This episode really highlights a correlation between mental health issues and private, for-profit exotic wildlife ownership.

Big Cat Rescue (BCR) is different from Joe Exotic and Doc Antle’s operations because BCR uses the best accepted practices in captivity, they do NOT breed, they do NOT allow human interaction, and funds help support political action against animal exploitation .

The facility I worked at, Carolina Tiger Rescue, had a similar setup and offered a place for captive cats to live the rest of their lives. Other than euthanizing them (which is a separate argument), no-touch facilities are the best alternative for animals that can’t be released.

My favorite line so far is Joe Exotic saying, from prison, “I’m in a cage.”

First episode down. I’m invested, going to the second.

Good grief, one of Joe’s employees had her arm ripped off by a tiger and he said “I’m never going to financially recover from this.”

Of course Doc Antle has a damn elephant

And a bunch of infant tigers on his couch

It is indeed all about elevating the status of the person. It is never about conservation or individual animals.

Dude w/ a lemur is saying people should donate to his facility because he breeds tigers, and more tigers = good for conservation

False

Only captive animals of known genetic origin are beneficial for ex situ conservation efforts. This is known as Species Survival Plans (SSP).

SSP animals are usually of known origin with a traceable pedigree, which matters for local adaptation- eg, it doesn’t make sense to put a tiger from the Sundarbans of Bangladesh in Siberia. A tiger is not just a tiger in this case. It’s not a numbers game.

Conservation is about populations, not individuals, so breeding cats w/out any attention to pop of origin doesn’t help animals in the wild. Backyard breeding often crosses unknown and/or geographically separate lineages, which eliminates these cats from SSP programs.

I had to pause and get another drink

Some of y’all in my mentions have wild opinions

PEOPLE SURGICALLY STUFF DRUGS INTO LIVE SNAKES OH MY FREAKING GOD

The illegal wildlife trade generates an estimated $20 billion annually and is the 4th most profitable criminal enterprise behind drugs, arms and human trafficking according to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime.

These people are out here mixing them together.

You cannot train a tiger with yoga.

Oh my god the abuse these young impressionable women endure from Doc Antle under the guise of loving tigers and other wildlife is truly horrific.

All the music videos are terrible regardless of the organization creating them

These dudes are complaining that BCR has weeds in their enclosures as if wild animals want to live in grass-less enclosures LMAO this jealousy is wild.

Also, not all cats can handle people, which is why so few cats are on the tour route at BCR.

Holy shit I know this series is about Joe but I didn’t think I could dislike Doc Antle any more, then:

He coerced a woman to get implants because he brainwashed, sexualized, and abused his female staff and she cited wanting to sleep as reason enough to have the surgery

AHHHH

Wow Joe is one-upping him by paying his staff so little that they rummage through expired and donated meat to feed themselves.

Ok I’m starting a third episode

I’ll try to refrain from ruining it for those who want to watch it and stick to comments about conservation and fact-checking, but y’all this shit is wild

Yes, breeding wild cats to sell as pets is wrong

This includes backcrosses with domestic cats

It doesn’t matter how much you love them- you can’t love away the exploitation and lack of proper care

These people are loving on “friendly” bobcats.

I’ve worked with wild bobcats, and I’m here to tell you: they will mess you up. This photo was taken in Montana, and this juvenile could have rendered my hand useless.

Wild cats, even the short ones, aren’t safe or happy pets.

Pivot:

Bird bones are hollow. Mammal bones are compact, dense, and heavy.

Yes, carnivores break bones into pieces and swallow them, but usually leave behind the larger, weight-bearing bones.

“This is what I do right here. I drive around and listen to myself singing.”

I was laughing and then they cut to a teenage tiger in the front seat.

This would be funny if it wasn’t so devastating for individual animals, and wildlife populations.

Rolling a just-born tiger cub out of a birthing hut and dragging it across the dirt to take it away from it’s still-laboring mother is among the worst things I have seen.

In final scenes of this episode two guys are talking in front of a sign for the Tiger Truck Stop in Grosse Tete, LA. It’s another private facility.

I went there in 2012 while on a road trip and filmed enclosures. Awful. They had a stuffed white tiger over the buffet.

Wow, I gotta say, as stupid as some of these people are, I am impressed with the sneaky effort of getting political reps to take photos with cubs because it stalls support for the Big Cat Safety Act, which (among many things) prohibits cub-petting.

It’s true these cats go bonkers over certain human cologne. Obsession by Calvin Klein is a known fav- they drool on and motorboat whatever it’s on. It’s pretty hilarious.

Alright y’all I gotta go to bed, but I’m invested and you better believe I’m gonna burn my eyeballs out finishing this shitshow tomrorow.

It’s important to remember here that while it has clearly never been about the animals for Joe Exotic, these scenes of him and others are peppered with pacing cats, screaming infant tigers, and hungry wildlife in crowded,
mud-filled enclosures. This is EVERYTHING to them.

I’m back! If you’re just tuning in, this is a thread on #TigerKing . If I’ve got to watch it, I may as well do it in my favorite ridiculous shirt.

Let’s pick up where we left off.

Last night I watched five episodes, and my comments thus far have been *mostly* about the tigers.

But since this show is also about the people, let me just say:

These men are total dirtbags.

Reading comments, it’s obvious that many people are unaware of the differences between sanctuaries (public or private) and zoos. Let’s break it down real quick:

First and foremost, calling a place a sanctuary doesn’t make it a sanctuary.

Neither Joe Exotic nor Doc Antle’s facilities have any recognized accreditation. Their cats aren’t part of SSP programs (definition is further up in this thread). They don’t collaborate with govt or NGOs on any charitable effort, or have info about wildlife conservation online.

The total lack of transparency about where they source their animals, where they sell them, why they breed them, and the extensive human interaction they promote causes active harm to the wildlife they own, and it perpetuates keeping wild animals as pets.

Under no circumstance does a real sanctuary allow the public, and usually the staff, to interact with animals (excluding non-medical reasons). The idea that tigers love us and need physical contact with humans is not based on wildlife ecology or behavior.

Do animals love? Sure, I think so. Do wild animals love us? No. Do tame animals love us? Maybe? When I worked at a tiger sanctuary, individual tigers knew me and were affectionate towards me. But we didn’t touch them. Ever. Because they’re apex predators.

As social animals, tigers are very vocal, playful, and intelligent: they form social bonds and recognize that humans provide resources in captivity. They’re food motivated, they don’t need to be hugged, and no sanctuary or conservation-focused facility will tell you otherwise.

I think it’s hard for some to distinguish between BCR and Joe Exotic or Doc Antle’s zoos because of this: the appearance that both sides “love” their cats.

The allure of tigers is powerful. It’s intoxicating to be in their presence. But it’s us who crave it, the tigers don’t.

Add in social media and hashtags about saving lions with pictures of purring cubs and playful tigers and it’s easy to confuse a for-profit private zoo with a sanctuary. Like I said earlier, you can’t love away the exploitation, and feel-good photos don’t = positive impact.

That these men make money off of an uneducated public, who have big hearts and good intentions, and NOT prioritizing the welfare of their animals, is why they are dirtbags.

Anyway, let’s get into episode 5.

Whoops I meant episode 6.

Re: episode 5, I can’t believe Joe ran for president, and then governor. It’s just so LOLSOB.

The scene where he was filing a political promo and got dragged by a liger was INTENSE.

And to be expected.

He claimed his staff were trying to kill him by putting something on his shoe, but from what I saw, that was just a young apex predator testing the water with something that triggered a predator response (his boot).

Of that cat wanted to kill him, it would have. Joe diffused itbefore the liger could decide if it wanted to, but this wasn’t promoted. It is just natural behavior of predators.

Him screaming that he would put a bullet between its eyes is pretty unhinged though.

This guy Jeff Lowe is the perfect example of business tycoons with no training exploiting wildlife.

Tiger cubs in hotel rooms in Las Vegas? It enrages me that people didn’t question tiger cubs in suitcases.

Joe sold several tigers to line his pockets when this business relationship with Lowe fell apart. They’re hauling white tigers off to make $3-4K per cat. Some had to be drugged to be moved between cages.

The financial stuff is egregious, but no vet was present for anesthesia.

I’m trained to anesthetize a few mesocarnivore species, including bobcats. Cats, but especially tigers, respond very poorly to anesthesia, and can be at high risk for crashing depending on the drug used.

Idk what Joe Exotic was using, but there wasn’t a stethoscope in sight to monitor heart rate for this sedated cat (drugged to be sold for $). When I worked at the tiger sanctuary, our c et was always very concerned with heart failure due to interactions with anesthesia.

In particular, bradycardia (low heart rate) and hypotension (low blood pressure) seem to be a risk for tigers under general anesthesia, usually the drug ketamine.

In my professionally angry opinion, knocking down tigers for non-medical reasons is dangerous and shitty.

Also, white tigers don’t exist in the wild and have no place in conservation programs.

OH HELL NO

That is NOT how you use a jab stick to anesthetize a wild animal. You don’t STAB the animal.

I’d be real happy about Joe losing access to his cats if he hadn’t just sold a bunch in the dead of night to shitty places and the facility wasn’t left at the mercy of Jeff Lowe.

Oh ffs Joe somehow still has a baby tiger.

It is so cute.

It doesn’t belong in an undisclosed back yard in Oklahoma. It belongs with its mother until 18 months.

Looking at a tiger with so many scars on its nose that I thought it was mange at first.

That’s the result of having too many cats fighting over food in the same enclosure.

Tigers are social, but they don’t form prides like lions. This is bad husbandry.

I’m super hesistant to comment on criminals committing crimes against one another, because I 1. don’t have all the info, 2. I don’t want to get involved , and 3. my focus is still on the tigers.

But...WOOF.

But y’all, this shit is wild.

Nothing good happens at Applebee’s.

And now I want to be a special agent with US Fish and Wildlife?

But in all seriousness, this man had been making videos for years about killing Carole Baskin and no one took it as credible or serious until this.

This is literally THE theme in violence against women.

How are they interviewing this guy??? He’s literally murder for hire and he’s a free man OH MY GOD

Ok, so this is THE example y’all need to be thinking about, forever:

They’ve got Joe Exotic talking about the exchange of $ to kill someone. He literally says “let me sell some tigers.”

I don’t wanna hear that private tiger ownership isn’t problematic af.

IT IS ALWAYS BLOOD $

No, I’m not saying everyone who owns exotic wildlife kills people, but this industry is fraught with exploitation. If it isn’t funding crimes, it’s actively causing harm to the animals, becausd it isn’t ever about them or their well-being.

I AM SPEECHLESS

It’s so devastating that this saga is continuing as these criminals move to a new location with these animals.

Right behind a casino on the Texas/Oklahoma border.