Thread by @twothatareone, A very long thread on why killing Ben Solo was not okay-or-LET [...]

A very long thread on why killing Ben Solo was not okay
-or-
LET ME TELL YOU HIS STORY SINCE THE MOVIES NEVER BOTHERED TO

#TheRiseOfSkywalker #BenSolo #BenSoloDeservedBetter

Ben had Palpatine (as Snoke) in his head targeting him since before he was even born! He was still in Leia& #39;s womb. Excerpts from Empire’s End:

& #39;Who is out there, who is watching us? Hands reach for her, hands of shadow, lifting her up, reaching for her throat, her wrists, her stomach—
Inside, the child kicks. She feels her baby turning inside, right-side, up and down, struggling to find his bearings& #39;...

...& #39;trying so hard to find his way free of her.& #39;

& #39;Right now, her son is upset, tumbling inside her as if he can’t get comfortable. His light, flickering with dark.& #39;

& #39;The baby turns inside her again, troubled by something she cannot feel and cannot yet understand.& #39; #bensolo

Ben in her womb, turning and tumbling in search of comfort, an ever-expanding radiance in the Force, but one shot through with veins of shadow. Luke had reassured her that was normal—the brighter the light, the darker the shadow. She’d desperately hoped that was true. -TLJ novel

He had trouble believing what he was hearing. “So Snoke was watching our son.” “Always,” she told him. “From the shadows, in the beginning, even before I realized what was happening, he was manipulating everything, pulling our son toward the dark side. - Leia to Han, TFA novel

At 2 years old Ben suffered from terrible nightmares every night. Here’s Han comforting baby Ben Solo:

& #39;The tiny foot was attached to the tiny body of Ben Solo, mercifully sleeping for what seemed like the first time in days.& #39; -Last Shot #BenSoloDeservedBetter

Han and Leia were gone much of the time. Han was a pilot who would leave for long periods of time. And Leia was busy rebuilding the New Republic after the war ended. A noble cause, but it left Ben neglected much of the time to be raised by droids.

Ben missed his father whenever he left. Here’s Ben at 2 years old: “Come back, Dada,” Ben said articulating each word carefully.” #BenSolo #BenSoloDeservedBetter

Also at 2 years old, Ben was almost murdered by a kitchen droid when he was left home alone. I& #39;m going to include this entire scene because it& #39;s so disturbing:

A NECK SLICE FIRST, BX figured. That would do the job quick. Or sever it at the top of the spine and keep it moving. There were so many organics to delete, and this one was just tiny. He sized up the little area of exposed flesh between Ben Solo’s black hair and his T-shirt...

...The boy was turned away, his little shoulders still heaving with sobs. Small mounds marked the ridged edges of cervical vertebrae. BX could slice between two of them, clean. It would be a smooth whisk through the air and then that gentle tug of resistance as the blade...

...carved through tendon, muscle, flesh, and bone. The satisfying plop to punctuate the cut. Ah…the satisfaction of a job well done, like a well-cooked meal!

But if BX aimed the cut wrong, he’d just wound the boy, and then he’d have to work out how to get the killing cut in...

...Tedious.

BX advanced, his serrated blade arm unfolding with a quiet whir. Ben spun around. And the world flashed into a pale emptiness, bright light pouring in from everywhere. Had they been bombed? BX wondered. Where was he?...

...A voice was whimpering nearby. Soft sniffles filled the air.
Ben.
Ben Solo.

#BenSoloDeservedBetter

Ben was extremely powerful in the Force and had anger issues as he grew older (he’s got Palpatine is his head ffs) The only childhood moment we get from Ben’s POV is when he’s thinking back on a memory in the TLJ novel:

& #39;For a moment Kylo let himself recall his parents’ worried conversations behind closed doors, the ones they’d deluded themselves into thinking he wouldn’t know about. Conversations about the anger and resentment that had boiled over once again in their son...

...Conversations in which they talked about him like he wasn’t their son, but some kind of monster. They were frightened of him, he realized. And so they got rid of him, sending him away to his uncle Luke—whose betrayal would prove far worse.& #39;

Leia had a lot of issues with Vader being her father, so trying to protect Ben, they never told him about Vader. So now this kid legitimately thought his parents saw him as a monster and were afraid of him with no idea why - that it was because of Vader being his grandfather.

Leia and Han, feeling afraid and inadequate to help him, then decided to send him away to train with Luke. We’ve never been given any indication that Ben wanted to be a Jedi. But we have been told that Ben wanted to be a pilot like his father. #BenSolo #BenSoloDeservedBetter

& #39;Ben as a toddler, forever following Han. Carrying the dice from the Millennium Falcon—the ones his father had used to win the beloved, battered freighter—and promising anyone who’d listen that one day he would be a pilot, too, like his daddy.& #39; -TLJ novel

So now on top of everything else Ben has abandonment issues after being sent away.

& #39;He [Snoke] had seen his apprentice’s enormous potential when he was still a child–the latent power of the Skywalker bloodline was impossible to miss...

...And he had also seen how to exploit the boy’s feelings of inadequacy and abandonment, and his mother’s guilt and desperation to contain the darkness within her child.& #39; -TLJ novel #BenSoloDeservedBetter

Six years before TFA, it& #39;s announced at a senate meeting that Leia is Vader’s daughter. This then gets broadcast on the holonet. We now know that Ben found out about Vader being his grandfather and that his family lied to him his whole life by watching it on the news. [Bloodline]

The next thing we know about is when Luke stands over Ben in his sleep, sees darkness (PALPATINE IS IN HIS FUCKING HEAD), and draws his saber.

“And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him.”

So Ben then slaughters the other students at the Jedi temple, right? NOPE. Guess again. That story is a complete lie, but Star Wars didn’t think it was important enough to put the real story in the final movie.

From The Rise of Kylo Ren comic #1:

It’s not 100% clear but based on the Force lightning it looks like Palpatine blew up the Jedi temple

Ben was upset and didn’t want this to happen #BenSolo #BenSoloDeservedBetter

3 of the students had been off planet and came back during the destruction. When he told them what happened they didn’t believe him.

Ben just wanted to leave but the other students started fighting him.

After he escaped on a ship they still chased him (one of the students wanted to help him, one didn’t) Ben was able to stop them while making sure not to hurt them.

Ben, feeling like he had nowhere else left to go, finally gave in and went to the voice that was in his head his whole life: Snoke

The next thing we know about is Snoke training him. And by training I mean he’s being groomed and abused - emotionally, mentally, and physically.

From the Snoke comic #1:

Snoke sends him flying off the edge of a cliff

Ben has to save himself from being killed and Snoke admits that he wouldn’t have saved him

I love that blood flying off of his face. This is cool. #BenSolo #BenSoloDeservedBetter

Snoke then takes him to the cave on Dagobah to face his fears. Ben is able to strike down a vision of Luke, but is unable to hurt either of his parents.

In fact he blows up the entire cave rather than attack the visions of them, so that Snoke won’t know that he couldn’t do it.

So there’s the story of the big bad evil villain we meet in TFA. Think you now know everything since you’ve watched these movies? Nope. You’re still missing all sorts of information...

In the opening scene of the movie Ben orders all the villagers to be killed. Is it just because he feels like it? Or some other reason?

From TFA novelization:

“Don’t turn a simple transaction into a tragedy for these people.” A tincture of undiluted sadism stained the voice behind the mask. “Hasn’t your presence here done enough for them already?” -Ben to Lor San Tekka

‘It wasn’t a massacre. In the lexicon of the First Order it was nothing more than a prescribed chastisement. Appropriate retribution for harboring a fugitive of note.’

So the novel tells us it was the First Order’s rules for them to be killed for harboring a fugitive, something which Ben almost seemed to want to avoid. He just wanted the map.

Then we see Ben stare down Finn after Finn doesn’t fire on the villagers. He is in Finn’s head (we know this for sure because later Ben knows it’s FN-2187 who helped Poe escape) and sensed his conflict, but decides not to say anything. As we know, Ben is also full of conflict.

‘He [Finn] remained rooted in place, clutching his unfired weapon, staring despite himself. And in response, the figure of Kylo Ren turned and looked sideways, directly at the soldier. The trooper saw only light reflecting off a mask, and his own fear...

...He knows. He must know. And I’m…dead.

But he wasn’t. The glance lasted barely a second. Then Ren resumed his pace, deep in thought as he strode toward the shuttle.’

When Ben is speaking to the Vader mask, trying to talk to his grandfather, we now know that this was also Palpatine speaking to him.

When the Hosnian system is blown up Ben is against it. From the TFA script:

SNOKE Good. Then we will crush them once and for all. Prepare the weapon. Kylo Ren is stunned by the moment -- that isn& #39;t what he meant at all --.

In the movie we see Ben turn his head slowly in judgement against Hux when he’s talking about using the weapon, and when Starkiller Base is fired Ben is not even on the planet. He wasn’t a part of this.

In case you never noticed in the movies, Ben has never once attacked Rey. She has started their fights every single time...

“So afraid,” he murmured. “Yet I should be the one who should be scared. You shot first. You speak of the Order as if it were barbaric. And yet, it is I who was forced to defend myself against you.”

The interrogation scene between Ben and Rey:

“Where am I?” “Does the physical location really matter so much?” In Kylo Ren’s voice there was unexpected gentleness.

“Is it true?” he finally asked. “You’re just a scavenger?” She didn’t respond, and, perhaps sensing her embarrassment, he changed the subject.

“I know you’ve seen the map,” he repeated. “It’s what I need. At the moment, it is all that I need.” When she maintained her silence, he almost sighed. “I can take whatever I want.”...

...Her muscles tightened. “Then you don’t need me to tell you anything.” “True.” He rose, resigned. “I would have preferred to avoid this. Despite what you may believe, it gives me no pleasure. I will go as easily as possible—but I will take what I need.”

Ben, after being in Rey’s head and sensing her loneliness and abandonment issues (the same things he feels), now has compassion for her:

The Supreme Leader’s voice was flat. “You have compassion for her.” “No—never. Compassion? For an enemy of the Order?” “I perceive the problem,” Snoke intoned. “It isn’t her strength that is making you fail. It’s your weakness.”

When Snoke wants to use Starkiller Base again on the Illenium System, Ben actually tries to stop it. This is why he now wants to get the map from Rey’s head so badly:

Daring to disagree, Ren took a step forward. “No—Supreme Leader, I can get the map from the girl, and that will be the end of it. I just need your guidance.”

After Rey escapes the interrogation room they have the stormtrooper questioned about her escape:

“Initial assessment indicates he is telling the truth.” The officer hesitated. “If you would wish to try stronger methods I can…”

“No—no. Keep questioning him. Just—questioning.”

Ben doesn’t want any stronger methods used against him.

‘Yet everything about him was narrow and stark, as if he had starved himself of nourishment. And his eyes were not the dark brown eyes Han remembered. They were dim and dark and terribly sad.’ -Han seeing Ben in the TFA junior novelization

& #39;Stunned by his own action, Kylo Ren fell to his knees. Following through on the act ought to have made him stronger, a part of him believed. Instead, he found himself weakened.& #39;

Onto TLJ:

The fingertip traced Kylo’s eyelid, leaving a streak of moisture behind. “Yes,” Snoke said. “There it is. You have too much of your father’s heart in you. Young Solo.”

When Ben can& #39;t fire on Leia:

She was worried for him, he realized. And she wasn’t angry. She ached for him to come back to her. Kylo depressed the trigger slightly, not quite enough to fire. And then he lifted his thumb. He couldn’t do it. A moment later, Kylo’s wingmate fired.

The explosion buffeted Kylo in his cockpit. If he had known, he could have stopped the torpedo—freezing it in space with a thought. But he had been surprised...

...Now he couldn’t sense his mother—the shock had shattered his focus, leaving him breathing hard behind his fighter’s control yoke.& #39;

So he actually wanted to stop the torpedo that blew up the bridge.

Rey thinking about when she was in Ben’s head in TFA:

She felt his rage, like a ruinous storm that filled his head, and his hatred, and his lust to dominate and humiliate those who had wronged him...

...But she also felt his hurt, and his loneliness. And his fear—that he would never prove as strong as Darth Vader, the ghost who haunted his dreams.

Remember when Rey called Ben a monster in TFA? She was literally bringing up his childhood fear of what his parents thought of him. Which is why it bothered him enough to bring up to her again here:

“You have that look in your eyes from the forest, when you called me a monster.”

“You are a monster,” Rey said, remembering the terror of her paralysis on Takodana. She stared back at him—and found his eyes full of hurt. Hurt—and conflict. “Yes, I am,” Kylo said, and there was no menace in his voice—only misery. #BenSoloDeservedBetter

& #39;When her tears finally ebbed, Rey lifted her head. She knew who she had to talk to about the cave, about what she had sought and what it had shown her—someone who would understand how solitude and loss could eat away at you until there was nothing left.& #39; #reydeservedbetter

“You’re not alone,” he insisted, and she believed him.& #39;

He has so much compassion for Rey here that he has actual TEARS in his eyes listening to her speak about her loneliness.

“No,” Rey said. “Look at me. Ben.” He turned at the sound of the name he’d been born with, the one he’d abandoned. He looked lost.

& #39;She watched the emotions chase themselves across his face, echoed by jitters and spikes in the Force. Anger. Confusion. Pain. Loneliness. Longing. Sorrow.& #39;

Snoke about Ben:

He called himself Kylo Ren, but as with so much else about him, that was more wish fulfillment than reality. He had never escaped being Ben Solo, or learned to resist the pull of the weak and pathetic light...

...or had the strength to excise the sentimental streak that had destroyed his legendary grandfather. And then there was his most glaring failure of all: his inability or unwillingness to use his power to redirect the course of his own destiny.

Hux when Luke shows up on Crait:

Somehow he knew that the man down there on the scarred landscape was looking straight at them, his gaze fixed unerringly not just on the shuttle but on one person inside. Hux looked at Ren’s face and saw terror—naked and undisguised.

& #39;In the command shuttle, Kylo Ren had gotten to his feet and was staring down at the strange spectacle below. His fists were clenched and there were tears in his eyes.& #39;

Luke about Ben:

Even stronger than the anger were Kylo’s pain and fear. They filled him, threatening to devour him...

...Ben Solo had sought to abandon everything he had been, even casting aside his name. But Luke sensed that Kylo Ren was just a shell around the same broken boy he had tried so hard to reach. #BenSolo #BenSoloDeservedBetter

We even have some extra information already from TROS:

In the opening scene of the movie when Ben is fighting people, they’re not innocent. According to the Visual Dictionary he’s on Mustafar and those people are “cult colonists” ie: people loyal to Darth Vader

And that’s Ben Solo’s story. He was portrayed as a victim suffering from mental health issues, who finally found his way back to the light, became a hero who ran off to save Rey, had a chance to live free of Palpatine’s influence for the first time in his life, and then died.

I wasn& #39;t going to continue this thread since everything is to this point nicely in chronological order, but we have new information and I can& #39;t resist...

First one thing I forgot earlier - The villagers on Jakku from the beginning of TFA, it& #39;s made clear in Rey& #39;s Survival Guide that they& #39;re not even peaceful people.

Now onto The Rise of Kylo Ren comic #2:

Ben is on a mission with Luke and Lor San Tekka. Here he is as a child with Snoke talking to him whenever he pleases, pretending to be his friend and gaining his trust.

Honestly it was hard enough knowing that this was happening, but actually seeing it is so disturbing.

They stumbled into the Knights of Ren. Ben is a cute kid who loves Luke.

The Master of the Knights of Ren senses the shadow in Ben and offers him a different pathway if he wants.

Back to the timeline of Ben after going to Snoke: Ben says that he hates his name.

Snoke is encouraging him to take a new name and to go to the Knights of Ren, who Ben had just expressed interest in finding.

He finds the helmet from the Knights of Ren and his classmates have caught up to him. Based on their drawn lightsabers they don& #39;t look too friendly.

The Rise of Kylo Ren Comic #3:

To no one& #39;s surprise the other students attacked Ben

Ben had to defend himself and then used to Force to save Voe from falling to her death

Hennix then decided this was a good moment to throw his lightsaber at Ben, which Ben had to push away to save himself from being killed. Hennix is apparently useless and couldn’t stop it or catch his own lightsaber.

Ben never wanted to kill anyone

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