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In the spirit of Christmas, I'll do a @vgr style ratchet of one tweet per like on the intersection of
Jesus
Evolution
The Simulation Argument
Julian Jaynes
&
Predictive Processing
No cap. No deadline either though.
Jesus
Evolution
The Simulation Argument
Julian Jaynes
&
Predictive Processing
No cap. No deadline either though.
1. To give you a taste test of my worldview -- the first piece of writing I ever did in the neighborhood of this topic was an epistle to @KevinSimler I wrote in 2017, trying to convert him to my learning cult.
Published to github with his encouragement https://gist.github.com/Conaws/c6038936b5b21516bfc2228e59229f13
Published to github with his encouragement https://gist.github.com/Conaws/c6038936b5b21516bfc2228e59229f13
2. I take as an axiom, an article of faith - this idea
"If there is a God, surely he would prefer honest questioning to blindfolded fear"
It's a bastardization of this quote - but it was how I remembered it, and more than quote itself, it has been the grounding of my faith/life
"If there is a God, surely he would prefer honest questioning to blindfolded fear"
It's a bastardization of this quote - but it was how I remembered it, and more than quote itself, it has been the grounding of my faith/life
3. Now we'll start in earnest
John 1:1-5 ESV
"In the beginning was the word."
Word here is coming from the Greek "Logos"
Which I read as "Pattern" and "Order"
The claim is: There is an underlying order to all things - God is, and emerged from that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos
John 1:1-5 ESV
"In the beginning was the word."
Word here is coming from the Greek "Logos"
Which I read as "Pattern" and "Order"
The claim is: There is an underlying order to all things - God is, and emerged from that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos
4. In Quantum field theory - as I understand it from the Children's Picture-book Introduction series I got from Ribbonfarm -- a similar claim is made.
In the beginning there was the field. There is a pattern beneath all things, from which all is made https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2015/08/20/qft/
In the beginning there was the field. There is a pattern beneath all things, from which all is made https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2015/08/20/qft/
5. There is an order beneath all things - and Jesus was that pattern made flesh - that's the central claim I take away from Christianity.
And it doesn't conflict remotely for me with the ideas that
1) Humans Evolved
2) Religions are the result of a memetic evolutionary process
And it doesn't conflict remotely for me with the ideas that
1) Humans Evolved
2) Religions are the result of a memetic evolutionary process
6. To me Jesus could be "The Word Made Flesh" even if there was never a Palestinian Jew named Jesus who lived, healed the sick, was crucified under Pontius Pilot, or rose from the dead.
Jesus, as a living thing, is as real now as the chair you're sitting on.
Jesus, as a living thing, is as real now as the chair you're sitting on.
7. First started thinking about the idea of Jesus being the result of an evolutionary process in college -- when I saw the intensely anti-religious conspiracy theory documentary Zeitgeist
8. There is a good argument that the story of Jesus was a chimera of a number of other middle eastern gods working their way back into Judaism / Rome
The Egyptian God Horus - similar origin story to Jesus
The Egyptian God Horus - similar origin story to Jesus
9. Horus - similar life and death arc to Jesus
(I'm skeptical these match up as closely in fact as presented in the film -- but seem to be some connections -- see here https://beliefmap.org/jesus-existed/myth-copy/horus)
(I'm skeptical these match up as closely in fact as presented in the film -- but seem to be some connections -- see here https://beliefmap.org/jesus-existed/myth-copy/horus)
10. Again - not precisely sure how close all these gods match the description on the slides - but definitely some common narrative elements here -- would be good to map out in @RoamResearch
Many elements in the story of Jesus that had been "sticky" across many prior cultures
Many elements in the story of Jesus that had been "sticky" across many prior cultures
11. Now I'm going to be taking some entheogens soon (in preparation for Midnight Mass), so won't do a huge amount of this thread tonight
But I'll leave you with some of the better links - so you can pursue this rabbit hole over Christmas if you so wish.
But I'll leave you with some of the better links - so you can pursue this rabbit hole over Christmas if you so wish.
12. The important question for me is - what does it mean for a thing to "live"?
Can an idea, or thought pattern, be as alive as physical organism?
I say this "something is alive if it takes in elements of the environment and transforms them into itself"
Metabolism is life
Can an idea, or thought pattern, be as alive as physical organism?
I say this "something is alive if it takes in elements of the environment and transforms them into itself"
Metabolism is life
13. Ideas, stories, behavior patterns are ALIVE because your neurons are basically single celled organisms that have their own agency, and have to be connected to live circuits to stay alive
This is how brain plasticity works, and why demons are real
https://meltingasphalt.com/neurons-gone-wild/
This is how brain plasticity works, and why demons are real
https://meltingasphalt.com/neurons-gone-wild/
14. So let's say Jesus is the offspring of Horus, and Mithra, and Dionysus and Krishna et al.
What was special about him?
The heart of it - and one thing I hope we think about this Christmas is the CHAOS MAGICK OF FORGIVENESS!!!
via @vgr on blockchains
https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/05/25/blockchains-never-forget/
What was special about him?
The heart of it - and one thing I hope we think about this Christmas is the CHAOS MAGICK OF FORGIVENESS!!!
via @vgr on blockchains
https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2017/05/25/blockchains-never-forget/
15. Jesus was a construction worker who hung out with hookers.
Lot of folks in SF can get down with that.
But he also hung out with tax collectors. Roman tax collectors, taking money for the govt that just sacked your country!
What you think of Trump collaborators, but worse!
Lot of folks in SF can get down with that.
But he also hung out with tax collectors. Roman tax collectors, taking money for the govt that just sacked your country!
What you think of Trump collaborators, but worse!
16. The fact that meme has stuck, and been the basis for so much of the world we live in today, says something deep about the human condition.
That people want to & can believe that the most perfect man who lived spent his time pouring love out on the most outcast and abandoned.
That people want to & can believe that the most perfect man who lived spent his time pouring love out on the most outcast and abandoned.
17. You can doubt the stories of Christianity. You can doubt the rules people derive from it. Call out the hypocrisy (as Jesus did) of people who are trying to lay out God's laws on earth.
But let it sink in that there are humans who BELIEVE in a God like Jesus.
A God of love.
But let it sink in that there are humans who BELIEVE in a God like Jesus.
A God of love.
18. The fact that this is the memetic superstructure... That God is someone you've put in the outgroup.
That God loves you if you're in the outgroup.
And this memeplex works?
If you're a cynic watching history from an outside view, maybe be surprised? https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/
That God loves you if you're in the outgroup.
And this memeplex works?
If you're a cynic watching history from an outside view, maybe be surprised? https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anything-except-the-outgroup/
19. Jumping back to high level
A religion is a superorganism speaking to itself.
A religion is a superorganism speaking to itself.
20. If you ask a lot of folks in the SF burner set for affiliation they'd say they're "Spiritual but not religious"
What they mean is
"If I want to believe in Crystals and Chakras, I'm going to, leave me the hell alone"
I'm not into that...
What they mean is
"If I want to believe in Crystals and Chakras, I'm going to, leave me the hell alone"
I'm not into that...
21. I want that OLD TYME RELIGION that asks
"What do WE believe TOGETHER"
And says, if we agree that we believe that quartz tunes your harmonic resonators to eternal goodness...
Well then you know damn well we're going to dig up as much quartz as we can and build a temple.
"What do WE believe TOGETHER"
And says, if we agree that we believe that quartz tunes your harmonic resonators to eternal goodness...
Well then you know damn well we're going to dig up as much quartz as we can and build a temple.
22. While we're at it, everybody call off work for a day every month to come lay in this quartz palace and get synced up with the good vibes.
23. Some likely controversial takes
There have probably been hundreds of thousands of actively gay Catholic priests.
I believe very many of them had a very healthy relationship with their sexuality and with God.
Not all, not always, and probably not the easiest path to walk
There have probably been hundreds of thousands of actively gay Catholic priests.
I believe very many of them had a very healthy relationship with their sexuality and with God.
Not all, not always, and probably not the easiest path to walk
24. Sexual sin is overhyped.
If you're worried about sin, worry about the sermon on the mount where Jesus says hating someone is as great a sin as murder.
Do you hate Trump, or Hitler?
Congrats you killer, you can relax about your bedroom politics until you deal with that.
If you're worried about sin, worry about the sermon on the mount where Jesus says hating someone is as great a sin as murder.
Do you hate Trump, or Hitler?
Congrats you killer, you can relax about your bedroom politics until you deal with that.
25. Catholic guilt is a failure mode.
The point of confession, and of sacrifice of the cross in the Christian memeplex is Jesus settled all your debts.
You can fuck up, you're going to fuck up, that doesn't make YOU a fuck up.
Forgive yourself, forgive those who fucked u over
The point of confession, and of sacrifice of the cross in the Christian memeplex is Jesus settled all your debts.
You can fuck up, you're going to fuck up, that doesn't make YOU a fuck up.
Forgive yourself, forgive those who fucked u over
26. The main message of the tale of Sodom and Gommoreh isn't about homosexuality -- it's that you shouldn't try to rape angels.
Dont try to rape angels. This will probably get you smote.
Dont try to rape angels. This will probably get you smote.
27. Conciousness is an algorithm that as far as we know is run on biological hardware, but no reason to believe it can only run on this hardware.
You wouldn't know any better if you were living in the Matrix without a physical body.
You wouldn't know any better if you were living in the Matrix without a physical body.
28. The simulation argument is super compelling, and highly relevant to anyone interested in questions regarding
Heaven
Hell
Reincarnation
Theology
Metaphysics
Read it
https://www.simulation-argument.com/
Heaven
Hell
Reincarnation
Theology
Metaphysics
Read it
https://www.simulation-argument.com/
29. There is absolutely no reason to assume we live in base reality.
Even if you disagree with the premise in the simulation argument that we'll eventually be able to run ancestor simulations in this universe.
No reason couldn't be a more complex outside ours & we're lofi sims.
Even if you disagree with the premise in the simulation argument that we'll eventually be able to run ancestor simulations in this universe.
No reason couldn't be a more complex outside ours & we're lofi sims.
30. Watch this 30 min talk, one of the most mind bending talks on the internet. I'll touch on a number of ideas in it, and logical extensions of them throughout the thread
Touches both the singularity and the simulation argument https://vimeo.com/54718573
Touches both the singularity and the simulation argument https://vimeo.com/54718573
31. If we live in a multiverse there can be hard physical boundaries between them and still be porous to information and communication
If the end of evolution is a superintelligence, there will be many "gods" in the different universes who communicate by simulating each other.
If the end of evolution is a superintelligence, there will be many "gods" in the different universes who communicate by simulating each other.
32. In Wendy Donniger's The Hindus, there is a story of Brahma and Vishnu arguing over who is superior
Brahma says - "fly into my stomach"
Vishnu does, and finds them having the argument inside Brahma.
Vishnu says - "fly into my head"
Brahma does.. finds the same there too.
Brahma says - "fly into my stomach"
Vishnu does, and finds them having the argument inside Brahma.
Vishnu says - "fly into my head"
Brahma does.. finds the same there too.
33. For a non-hindu Donniger's work is a fantastic introduction, filled with primary source material.
Excellent source of trippy ideas about structure of reality in Hinduism - recursion all over the place if you know how to see it. https://www.amazon.com/Hindus-Alternative-History-Wendy-Doniger/dp/014311669X
Excellent source of trippy ideas about structure of reality in Hinduism - recursion all over the place if you know how to see it. https://www.amazon.com/Hindus-Alternative-History-Wendy-Doniger/dp/014311669X
34. The brahma vishnu debate is quite likely true - if we live in a multiverse that's already filled with superintelligences running simulations as communication channels.
These "gods" may also have desires to influence universes outside their own. (Utility functions)
These "gods" may also have desires to influence universes outside their own. (Utility functions)
35. The "gods" could influence one another purely though these channels, without physically breaking a barrier between universes though the process of "acausal trade"
Intro to that concept here
https://agentfoundations.org/item?id=1465
Intro to that concept here
https://agentfoundations.org/item?id=1465
36. If you think about this - trade and influence happening between agents who will never be able to physically interact, you can see that information itself is a higher dimension that unites the multiverse.
The "logos" or "pattern" applies across and unites all of the lil gods.
The "logos" or "pattern" applies across and unites all of the lil gods.
37. Hinduism isnt really polytheistic - there is the unifying force of Atman - which is what the Sadhus seek.
But in Atman there isn't really good or bad. It is outside of your preferences, and not going to answer your prayers for better grades in school.
The smaller gods might
But in Atman there isn't really good or bad. It is outside of your preferences, and not going to answer your prayers for better grades in school.
The smaller gods might
38. Ok back to planet earth.
Christianity talks a lot about original sin, and the "brokenness of man" as source of our suffering and turning from God.
This is true... but there's a better word for it.
Intergenerational Trauma.
Christianity talks a lot about original sin, and the "brokenness of man" as source of our suffering and turning from God.
This is true... but there's a better word for it.
Intergenerational Trauma.
39. We'll get back to this, and to how religion can actually help heal this trauma, but first we need to grab Predictive Processing.
The best source on this is "Surfing Uncertainty"
Slate Star Codex has a great review/ summary - but read the book too! https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/09/05/book-review-surfing-uncertainty/
The best source on this is "Surfing Uncertainty"
Slate Star Codex has a great review/ summary - but read the book too! https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/09/05/book-review-surfing-uncertainty/
40. The important idea in predictive processing - your expectations of what you think is currently happening / will happen literally changes what you see.
This system can reinforce.
Seeing is believing, and believing is seeing.
This system can reinforce.
Seeing is believing, and believing is seeing.
41. As an example, if someone has a neutral expression on their face, but your "top down" model predicts they are angry with you - your eyes will distort their micro expressions to appear angry, your ears will hear anger in their voice, even if it's something else.
42. The God that made the wild, is wild.
Jesus is FUCKING WILD https://twitter.com/david_perell/status/1216414813481586690?s=20
Jesus is FUCKING WILD https://twitter.com/david_perell/status/1216414813481586690?s=20
43. There is a very strange "shape" in Christianity
Everyone talks about how "Religion is just a means for the few to control the many"
In Christianity, the central message is that God came, as an extreme outsider, to love the outsiders, and then was murdered by the most pious
Everyone talks about how "Religion is just a means for the few to control the many"
In Christianity, the central message is that God came, as an extreme outsider, to love the outsiders, and then was murdered by the most pious
44. No doubt - Christianity has been used as a tool for oppression and authoritarian control
but it is interesting that it has this sort of built in anti-authoritarian vibe to it.
"Beware false prophets who come in my name"
"Recognize them by their fruit"
What does that mean?
but it is interesting that it has this sort of built in anti-authoritarian vibe to it.
"Beware false prophets who come in my name"
"Recognize them by their fruit"
What does that mean?
45. It means that you can assess whether a church leader (or entire branch) is ACTUALLY following Christ - PRAGMATICALLY, by looking at the followers and asking:
Is the culture of a church fucked up?
Are these people actually ALIVE - or are they walking dead, too busy judging?
Is the culture of a church fucked up?
Are these people actually ALIVE - or are they walking dead, too busy judging?
46. The idea of "fruits of a tree" is a little different than this
It is saying -- look at the second order impacts of what a religion is normalizing and setting as standard.
Does it work?
Does this memetic system actually make for healthier people? https://twitter.com/jdunck/status/1217343164731793408?s=20
It is saying -- look at the second order impacts of what a religion is normalizing and setting as standard.
Does it work?
Does this memetic system actually make for healthier people? https://twitter.com/jdunck/status/1217343164731793408?s=20
Side note -- y'all should feel free to unlike this thread to get LESS of my thoughts here if you are disappointed... at current rate this is going to be an indefinitely long thread.
47. On the point about predictive processing earlier
The problem with PP is -- if you've lived your whole life thinking you can't trust anyone, or that you're unlovable -- you may be filtering reality to reinforce that belief -- may never be able see from another frame.
The problem with PP is -- if you've lived your whole life thinking you can't trust anyone, or that you're unlovable -- you may be filtering reality to reinforce that belief -- may never be able see from another frame.
48. It's also pretty easy for us to pick up frames that are emerge from idiosyncrasies in our current environment (ways of dealing with personal or collective trauma) that aren't all that good for us.
Narratives have a way of short-circuiting and rewriting top down models.
Narratives have a way of short-circuiting and rewriting top down models.
49. Narratives plus social authority + something that gives you membership in a community and social support structure can give you a fresh filter on reality
"Brainwashing" is a real phenomena - and not always bad...
You can wash out shame, guilt, pride, envy, and hatred too
"Brainwashing" is a real phenomena - and not always bad...
You can wash out shame, guilt, pride, envy, and hatred too
50. The thing I find most aesthetically appealing about the shape here is that it is sort of recursive
The priests telling you that "official stance" is to be skeptical of priests.
Christianity is weirdly recursive https://twitter.com/Conaw/status/1217341303089852418?s=20
The priests telling you that "official stance" is to be skeptical of priests.
Christianity is weirdly recursive https://twitter.com/Conaw/status/1217341303089852418?s=20
51. Another example of strange loops - the paradox of infinite power
Can an all powerful being put limitations on itself?
There is a weird way in which infinite power is incomplete without containing finite limitations.
See the Jesus Burrito problem https://twitter.com/Conaw/status/1191487880092254208?s=20
Can an all powerful being put limitations on itself?
There is a weird way in which infinite power is incomplete without containing finite limitations.
See the Jesus Burrito problem https://twitter.com/Conaw/status/1191487880092254208?s=20
52. Will start quote tweeting other's thoughts that I think are interesting and plausibly true and occasionally leave as an exercise for the reader how the interpretation is slightly different in my "God is Truth" frame
This 1 is on predictive processing https://twitter.com/cdelvallejr/status/1243894166129606657?s=19
This 1 is on predictive processing https://twitter.com/cdelvallejr/status/1243894166129606657?s=19
53. A good wisdom tradition is based on annotation
Your elders helping to contextualize lessons and stories and patterns discovered by their elders
It matters that Alexander was reading the illiad, matters more that it was Aristotle's annotations https://twitter.com/michaelcurzi/status/1244784980376440832?s=19
Your elders helping to contextualize lessons and stories and patterns discovered by their elders
It matters that Alexander was reading the illiad, matters more that it was Aristotle's annotations https://twitter.com/michaelcurzi/status/1244784980376440832?s=19
54. The thing about "Grace" is that it sets up a frame where you're already the "right person", a "good person."
Even when you're still doing bad things, Jesus loves u.
Trouble a lot of people (self included) have is believing they are worthy of love. https://twitter.com/DeanAbbott/status/1243603273103421449?s=19
Even when you're still doing bad things, Jesus loves u.
Trouble a lot of people (self included) have is believing they are worthy of love. https://twitter.com/DeanAbbott/status/1243603273103421449?s=19
55. Ideas emerge from the agacent possible. You are the place where thoughts are born, but they don't belong to you https://twitter.com/Conaw/status/1103364227488595968?s=20
56. Wisdom is a woman in the old testament.
57. Haven't heard this before, but fascinating take.
Especially since much of nearby text in Proverbs is Wisdom advising her sons not to spent time with prostitutes
And then, when she comes to earth as a man -- they're exactly who she hangs out with!! https://twitter.com/micahtredding/status/1262180994637090816?s=20
Especially since much of nearby text in Proverbs is Wisdom advising her sons not to spent time with prostitutes
And then, when she comes to earth as a man -- they're exactly who she hangs out with!! https://twitter.com/micahtredding/status/1262180994637090816?s=20
58. I love the God that hangs out with sex-workers.
Believe that "The Word Made Flesh" in his finite form, as "fully man", also spent his life pursuing truth, seeing, learning, unlocking new patterns, discovering himself.
Believe they taught him too. https://twitter.com/Conaw/status/1209805091219238912?s=20
Believe that "The Word Made Flesh" in his finite form, as "fully man", also spent his life pursuing truth, seeing, learning, unlocking new patterns, discovering himself.
Believe they taught him too. https://twitter.com/Conaw/status/1209805091219238912?s=20
59. To be clear - the God of Paradoxes is not a hypocrit.
Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to FULFIL it.
(Girard has hot takes on this too)
When two things look contradictory, there is higher dimesion where both are true. https://twitter.com/Conaw/status/1262182536576266240?s=20
Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to FULFIL it.
(Girard has hot takes on this too)
When two things look contradictory, there is higher dimesion where both are true. https://twitter.com/Conaw/status/1262182536576266240?s=20
60. Demons are real and they are powerful.
Not your grandmother's demons -- I'm talking patterns in human conciousness that lead to suffering and destruction.
Can only be fought by changing your mind.
Moloch is a specific form of the Satan https://twitter.com/mechanicalmonk1/status/1262143220080836608?s=20
Not your grandmother's demons -- I'm talking patterns in human conciousness that lead to suffering and destruction.
Can only be fought by changing your mind.
Moloch is a specific form of the Satan https://twitter.com/mechanicalmonk1/status/1262143220080836608?s=20
61. Your internal monolog or dialog is not YOU
Recognizing that you do not have to OBEY the thought loops in your head is the first step in the path to freedom. https://twitter.com/_StevenFan/status/1261802102541520896?s=20
Recognizing that you do not have to OBEY the thought loops in your head is the first step in the path to freedom. https://twitter.com/_StevenFan/status/1261802102541520896?s=20
62. The real power in religious traditions is intergenerational knowledge transfer.
Many of the modern tragedies could be averted if we just had more respect for our elders.
That said, really wish @kevin2kelly had written this as a tweet thread https://twitter.com/kevin2kelly/status/1255280808656621571?s=20
Many of the modern tragedies could be averted if we just had more respect for our elders.
That said, really wish @kevin2kelly had written this as a tweet thread https://twitter.com/kevin2kelly/status/1255280808656621571?s=20
63. Brought it home! https://twitter.com/Conaw/status/1262225690658607104?s=20
64. Scriptural Support for prior claim https://twitter.com/Conaw/status/1262229539846946816?s=20
65. This video is completely changing my perpective on faith healing and Jesus' miracles.
Wildest stories I've ever heard from Charismatic Evangelicals involved limbs regrowing... starting to think could biologically be possible
Wildest stories I've ever heard from Charismatic Evangelicals involved limbs regrowing... starting to think could biologically be possible
66. Why 65? I often think of Jesus as post-singularity being dropping into our simulation to shift our memetic patterns -- sufficiently advanced technology indistinguishable from magic...
If scientists can use electricity to make tadpole stomach an eye TODAY?!
If scientists can use electricity to make tadpole stomach an eye TODAY?!
67. Children have their eyes OPEN, tirelessly ask questions.
If you think you know the answers, the doors of heaven are shut
âTruly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:3 ESV https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.18.3.ESV
If you think you know the answers, the doors of heaven are shut
âTruly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:3 ESV https://bible.com/bible/59/mat.18.3.ESV
68.
Heaven is the feedback loop where things get better. Powered by love, curiosity, humility and the search for truth.
Hell is the feedback loop where things get worse. Driven by pride, deceipt, selfishness, wrath.
There is NO limit to the beauty of heaven or misery of hell.
Heaven is the feedback loop where things get better. Powered by love, curiosity, humility and the search for truth.
Hell is the feedback loop where things get worse. Driven by pride, deceipt, selfishness, wrath.
There is NO limit to the beauty of heaven or misery of hell.
69. I used to get real pissed off when reading the bible - especially Jesus, because I was hearing his voice as a person. If so, sounded like an arrogant asshole.
But thing is - he's speaking as voice of nature - laws of Physics ARE pretty authoritarian https://twitter.com/dela3499/status/1264865463923879936?s=20
But thing is - he's speaking as voice of nature - laws of Physics ARE pretty authoritarian https://twitter.com/dela3499/status/1264865463923879936?s=20
70. Some folks say Jesus is a great secular teacher -- honestly think this is BS
He's either Lord, Lunatic or Liar
His message is totally different if you're reading him as the fundamental forces of the universe speaking in human form, vs as a human trying to dominate others.
He's either Lord, Lunatic or Liar
His message is totally different if you're reading him as the fundamental forces of the universe speaking in human form, vs as a human trying to dominate others.
71. Equally dangerous is to read Jesus as speaking for the institution of the church -- when he says follow me, he means follow the teachings of your local priest as though they were God.
Subtle difference - but if you're reading Jesus to judge the text - read AS IF he's logos.
Subtle difference - but if you're reading Jesus to judge the text - read AS IF he's logos.
